[VGN] Interview with Bill Tiller

Wer ist Bill Tiller? fragt sich vllt. der eine oder andere von euch - ich zumindest wusste es nicht - jedoch, handelt es sich bei dieser Person um einen Entwickler von Point'n'Click-Adventures, der schon mit einigen alten Adventures zu tun hatte, wie z.B. Monkey Island 3 - The Curse Of Monkey Island. Er berichtet von seinem eigenen Projekt, einem Spiel namens A Vampyre Story. Es hoert sich interessant an. [...]
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Cubed³ Exclusive Interview | A Vampyre Story on Wii & DS? AME Games Tells All!
By Adam Riley (jesusraz)
06.11.2006 21:39

Interview with William Tiller, AME Games
Interview by Adam Riley & Mike Mason :: Monday, 6th November, 2006
When people start talking about adventure games on the PC, many will instantly start talking about the likes of Broken Sword, Monkey Island, Sam & Max and even The Longest Journey. Unfortunately, traditional point-and-click games have been somewhat of a dying breed as of recent years, with the likes of Fahrenheit and Dreamfall changing the format to suit today’s market. But former LucasArts man Bill Tiller is attempting to bring back the classic adventure that we all know and love with his new company Autumn Moon Entertainment. Cubed³ caught up with him to talk about their début title, A Vampyre Story...

Cubed³: Could you please let our readers know a little about your background prior to AME?

Bill Tiller, Founder of Autumn Moon Entertainment: I studied film and animation at California Institute of the Arts where I was fortunate to have some of the industry’s best talent as my instructors. Some of my teachers included the late Joe Ranft, a very talented and wonderful person. Mike Giammo and Chris Buck, the director of Tarzan, were my instructors there as well. That was a very formative period for me. I learned how to be a better artist, how to animate and how to tell visual stories. I also love games and computers. I played Dungeons and Dragons all the time growing up. We got a computer in 1982 when I was about fifteen and I used to write programs for it and had a lot of fun doing that. And I’ve always been an artist - I’ve always liked to draw. My sister is very artistic too, so I guess it runs in the family.

After graduating from Cal Arts, I got a job at LucasArts, which was filled with lots of talented people and was a great place to work during that early, formative part of my career. That was in 1992. I worked with many great people there and learned a lot about art and making games. I worked on The Dig, Rebel Assault, Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine, and Curse of Monkey Island, to name a few. I was influenced by many people there including Bill Eaken, Paul Mica, Peter Chan, Steve Purcell, Anson Jew, Collette Michaud, Larry Ahern, Jonathan Ackley, Hal Barwood, and Brian Moriarty. The games I worked on taught me a lot about what worked and what didn’t and how to make a really good LucasArts-style adventure game. That was the hay day for LucasArts adventure games and to be around that and part of the production was a very valuable experience.

After LucasArts, I worked for several other game companies. I worked on Guild Wars, I worked at Stormfront on EA’s Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. At Midway, I worked as a third party Art Director on Spy Hunter: Nowhere to Run and The Suffering. I gained a lot of experience and knowledge about the game industry and how it runs. I learned about publishers and developers and that relationship - what works, what doesn’t.

C3: Autumn Moon Entertainment is formed from many ex-LucasArts employees. What made you want to break away from the company? Was it that it turned its back on the adventure game genre or were other factors involved as well?

Bill: After working at LucasArts for nearly a decade, I was ready to take on larger creative responsibilities beyond art direction. I wanted to make my own game. I had wanted to make A Vampyre Story for many years. I thought about pitching the idea to LucasArts, but since they were moving away from the adventure game genre, I didn’t want to risk losing the game rights to them. To get to the position of Project Leader at any game company in order to pitch your own original game ideas is a very complicated and lengthy process with no guarantees that you’ll get to work on the type of game you want to. I decided that the best way to make the kind of game I wanted to make and have creative control over it was to form my own company and make it myself. So that’s what I did.

C3: Whose idea was it to create A Vampyre Story - solely yours, or was it more of a joint effort? And how large is the team currently working on the game?

Bill: A Vampyre Story was an idea I came up with back in 1995 while vacationing in the Caribbean. It was right before I started working on Curse of Monkey Island and I went to the Caribbean to get inspiration for the game backgrounds. I was doing some sketches one day, just doodling, and I drew this female vampire and her bat sidekick and I thought a story about them could make a good game. I did some writing over the years about their background - who they were, what their personalities were like. I worked out a plot for Mona to be held against her will by an undead obsessed vampire and that she really wanted to be an opera singer in Paris and wasn’t fully aware that she’d been turned into a vampire. A lot of my inspiration for the humour and look of the game came from many sources. I’m a big horror fan. I love Halloween and everything about it. It’s my favourite time of the year. I love scary movies, especially the old black and white monster movies. I love the art of Edward Gorey. And originally, I had thought of making A Vampyre Story in that Edward Gorey style, all black and white ink drawings. I thought it would be cool to have a game completely in black and white, especially since this genre would work well with that.

But later, I did some of the artwork in colour and it just looked really great. Since colour is one of my stronger artistic points, it seemed foolish not to use it. A Vampyre Story is definitely a Bill Tiller creation. The story, the characters, the art, the puzzles and plot are all from me. Well, okay, maybe 90% mine. I do have some characters and puzzles that other team members have contributed. And I like to work that way - to have creative input from my team. But most of the story, puzzles, art and character design were all completed by me before I got a team assembled.

C3: Please could you sum up a little of the story behind A Vampyre Story for our readers? Is Mona’s sidekick, Froderick the bat, set to take on the wisecracking partner role?

Bill: Yes, Froderick is going to be a bit of a wisecracking bat, but he’s much more than that. He’s also an advisor and trusted confidant and cheerleader for Mona. He’s more street-wise than Mona and helps her out quite a bit. He’s very interested in making sure she succeeds. Without going into too much detail, they have a sort of partnership. They have an agreement and that’s why they stick together. Eventually, they become very close friends and rely on each other.

C3: Since voice acting is such an important aspect of a game’s feel and atmosphere, will you be recruiting any past talent you have come across whilst working on other games? Or will there be any other famous names lined-up for the voice-acting cast?

Bill: Our plan is to use some actors we’ve used before at LucasArts. We’re still going over the budget to see how much we can spend on voice talent. Voice talent is very important so we’re going to make sure we do a good job with it. I’d like to get some well-known actors to do some of the voice acting, not because they’re famous but because of their acting talent. And also because I’ve heard their voices before in other animated movies and games, so I might want to use them again. But I’m also open to using new talent from voice actors who aren’t as well known as long as they’re good and do a good job. I’m more interested in quality than name recognition.

C3: The style of A Vampyre Story looks similar to, but sufficiently different from, The Curse of Monkey Island in certain aspects. Is this a coincidence or was the game a source of inspiration for the team?

Bill: The Curse of Monkey Island’s art style is definitely an inspiration for this game. I decided to use basically the same art style for this game as the one I developed for Curse of Monkey Island, except for a couple of changes. The colours are going to be different and we won’t be using any pencil outlines. Obviously we’re going for a more Gothic look, so there won’t be any happy, curly-Q clouds or tropical colours. We’re going for more sharp edges, scary shapes and more gloomy colours. Not too gloomy, but rather cooler and darker colours. And it’s going to take place all at night, obviously, because Mona is a vampire. The setting is going to be a little darker and a little gloomier.

C3: What else has inspired the team in the creation of the game, be it something from the gaming world or other areas?

Bill: Our other inspirations for this game are the black and white horror movies from the ‘30s, ‘40s, and ‘50s. Also the art of the Hildebrandt brothers and some of the Warner Brothers cartoons, especially Bugs Bunny vs. The Count and Bugs Bunny vs. Witch Hazel. As for games, we were very inspired by LucasArts games, especially Monkey Island and Full Throttle. Another inspiration was artist/illustrator Edward Gorey. He did a lot of macabre humour in his artwork and did a lot of pen and ink drawings. He was a very popular artist and did a lot of books and set design as well as the opening to the PBS television show, Mystery!

C3: What is planned for the interface - a Curse of Monkey Island style 'pop-up' when clicking on an object, a list of commands at the bottom of the screen to be selected from, or an entirely new one created from your own devices?

Bill: Our current plan is to use the same radial interface that we used on Full Throttle and Curse of Monkey Island. I like that interface the best and think it works the best. It doesn’t quite get rid of all aspects of an interface, like Grim Fandango did. But it does give you enough power and control, more than you would have in Grim Fandango. We feel like if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. It makes sense to use an interface that works really well, so that’s why we’re sticking with it. The only twist is we’re adding vampire powers. That’s a fourth thing you can click on. Mona will ultimately have two vampire powers in this first game that she can use. She’ll have one power in the first chapter and then two powers in the remainder of the game. In that case we’re going to go to a sub-radial menu where you’ll get to choose between the two powers. That’s similar to the way Neverwinter Nights works. They have a radial menu but when you click on one of the menus, it brings up a sub-menu in the same space.

C3: You announced on 30th June that you have now signed up with a publisher for the game on the PC. Is this purely for the US market, or will good old Europe be getting a piece of the action? Also, did you get your first choice publisher?

Bill: We signed a deal with a German company, Crimson Cow, for exclusive worldwide distribution rights to A Vampyre Story. We’re currently working on the PC version and haven’t started discussions about other platforms. Crimson Cow is negotiating with other territories including French-speaking, Russian-speaking, English and North American. The game will definitely be out in Europe, probably even before or perhaps simultaneously with North America. Europe is our primary territory that we’re interested in publishing the game right away. We want to get the game to all the territories - North America, South America, Europe, Russia, even Japan and Korea. I think ultimately we will try to make A Vampyre Story available in every country interested in playing adventure games. Our publisher is 100% on board with that too so we have the same goal.

As for first choice on a publisher, I didn’t really have a first choice. I didn’t have a preference. I just wanted to make sure that the publisher we went with was a good publisher and that they understood what we were making. I did not want a publisher who would try to turn it into an action game or Xbox shooter or try to make it into a serious vampire game. I didn’t want a publisher who would try to change the art style from cartoon to something more realistic. I wanted to find a publisher who was on board with the vision of the game and we definitely found that with Crimson Cow. They’re 100% behind the vision of the game and they completely understand what we’re trying to do and what kind of game we’re trying to make and I couldn’t be happier with them. Crimson Cow embodies exactly what I wanted in a publisher and I’m very happy we went with them.

C3: How tough has it been trying to sell a graphic adventure game to publishers in these modern times of action, guns and explosions? Ron Gilbert, creator of Monkey Island, has suggested that publishers basically ignore pitches for graphic adventures nowadays. Have you found this to be the case?

Bill: Adventure games do have a bit of a negative reputation right now with some of the bigger publishers because they still tend to be a little expensive to make, though not too expensive. They sell a steady 150,000 to 300,000 units depending on whether or not you have a licensed adventure game like CSI or Nancy Drew. Those tend to sell a little bit more. Yeah, it was hard to sell the game. It wasn’t hard to get interest in it. Everyone liked the look of the game and I think it reminded them of Curse of Monkey Island so they didn’t have a problem with the look or the style and they thought vampires were great. But they definitely had a hard time pitching it to the businessmen and convincing them to spend money on a graphic adventure. Adventure games come across as riskier investments. If you look at sales figures for adventure games, you’ll see that they don’t usually make a ton of money, but they are steady sellers. They tend to stay on store shelves a long time, maybe two to three years. They’re an "evergreen" product. The revenue stream tends to be fairly steady. A lot of game developers are stuck in this mode of trying to get a big hit, a "home run", every single time rather than have a game that does well and brings in a steady stream of income.

All the publishers were very interested, even the biggest companies - the top five in the world, were all very interested in the game. But when it came time to actually doing it they got cold feet. So that’s why we went with a publisher that had already done an adventure game and was making money with adventure games and had experience with it. They knew what they were getting into and they weren’t afraid. That worked out best for both of us, Crimson Cow and Autumn Moon Entertainment. And it makes sense. They know how to sell an adventure game, they know what to expect and they know what’s going to be a hit. It was better for us to go with someone who had experience with adventure games rather than go with a big publisher that hadn’t done one in a long time.

C3: What are your views on the Videogame Industry as it currently stands now? Do you agree with Nintendo's approach of trying to expand the market?

Bill: My current view of the video game industry is that companies are sort of scrambling with business models to keep themselves afloat and the most popular one seems to be spending 10-20 million dollars apiece on high-end Xbox or PlayStation 3 games. Then hopefully one of those games will sell 1-4 million units, like Halo or Doom. In order to spend 20 million dollars on a game, they can’t really justify doing something original, because that’s a little risky. It needs to have some guaranteed marketability, like being based on an existing license such as Batman, SpongeBob, or a recent movie release. So the current trend is NOT to do original ideas. Creativity is being squashed. The only place really to be creative, I feel, is in smaller games - either casual games or lower budget PC games, like the game we’re making.

We don’t have the pressure of having a large budget title and needing to make a lot of money with it. We know that if we make the game with a very reasonable budget, we can safely project out and assume that we’re going to make a profit. That profit allows us to make another game and continue doing original ideas. We get to be an alternative to the movie-based games, the endless Grand Theft Auto sequels or Halo sequels. We get to make something original, story based, and that’s not violent. That’s the market niche we’re trying to fit into and hopefully we’ll succeed.

C3: Talking of Nintendo, what are your thoughts on the Wii in general? It is definitely being placed in a different market sector to that of the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Could this at last be Nintendo’s proper renaissance?

Bill: I’m not familiar with Nintendo’s approach at trying to expand the market. I assume that means they’re trying to get more people who don’t play games to play them. If that’s the case, I totally agree with that. I think games are a wonderful pastime and are in some ways better than movies or television because people can interact and go at their own pace. I really like the Nintendo Wii because it gets people off the couch and they actually physically interact with the game. I got to play the Nintendo Wii at E3 and I thought it was awesome. I thought it was great. I didn’t think the graphics were impressive, but it didn’t matter. I was having so much fun playing baseball, fishing, sword fighting, playing drums. It was a lot of fun. I’m totally 100% behind the Wii and I’m going to buy one once they come out... if my wife lets me (laughs).

C3: Following on from this, has any consideration gone into translating A Vampyre Story onto the Nintendo DS, or even Nintendo Wii?

Bill: I would love to make a Nintendo DS version of the game. It’s up to our publisher, Crimson Cow, whether we do one or not. But if there’s any way we can get that done, I would like to. I do think adventure games work well on hand-held platforms, especially the DS. That is something we’re very interested in and will definitely pursue. I do think adventure games can expand more into that market. A lot of people, or at least in the U.S., consider the DS to be more of a children’s platform. They buy it for their kids to play while riding in the car or taking the bus to school. I think adventure games are good games for kids to play because they’re not violent, they won’t get them all hyped up, they challenge their thinking with puzzles and mini games. Plus, the humour and art are more suited for kids and teenagers.

I think the genre and the platform are perfect together and we’ll definitely pursue it. There hasn’t been any discussion about porting A Vampyre Story to the Nintendo Wii. Personally, I’m all for it. I’d love to see the game on the Wii. I think it would be perfect for it too as well as the DS. I’d be very excited to do that. Those are discussions we need to have closer towards the end of production, a little farther down the road. I’m sure every avenue for this game will be pursued by Autumn Moon Entertainment and Crimson Cow.

C3: With the Nintendo Wii attempting to expand the market, bringing gaming to a completely new sector, as well as luring older gamers back into the fold, surely this means that there is a great opportunity for the graphical adventure to make a strong comeback, would you agree?

Bill: I think graphic adventures could make a comeback if the quality of the games is competitive with the quality of mainstream games. Meaning, it has to be appealing to look at, the interface has to be easy to use and the subject matter has to be accessible to the mainstream game playing audience. Adventure game developers can’t make games based on really obscure subject matter or really esoteric ideas. I think we can still make original games, but they have to be appealing to a broad audience. Making a game about Einstein’s theory of relativity is just not going to sell. It might be a great game and educational but it won’t sell. It can’t support a large budget and therefore probably won’t look good or look very appealing.

A game about vampires, which I love because I’m a big fan of Gothic horror and I think a lot of other people are as well, I think this subject matter lends itself to selling a good number of units. Thus it makes sense to spend a decent amount of money on making the game look appealing. I think adventure games can make a big comeback. I think the type of gameplay has a limited audience. There are a maximum number of people who want to solve puzzles exclusively without any action. But I think we can get to the maximum number of people who enjoy puzzles and story by making a very beautiful and appealing game.

C3: The lower development costs linked with the Wii must also be attractive in comparison to the likes of the PlayStation3 and Xbox 360? Also there is the aspect of developers being able to use the Virtual Console for new lower-budget titles. How does that factor into any of your equations?

Bill: Right now we’re developing exclusively for PC. I don’t have any experience developing for Wii. But it looks like the graphical requirements for Wii are much less than for the 360 or PlayStation 3. The good thing about that is you can have a lower budget, which will hopefully translate into more creative freedom for developers. I’m looking forward to Nintendo Wii. I think with Nintendo Wii, we’re going to be getting some more interesting games and more original content.

C3: With such a unique control system for the Wii, what are your thoughts about supporting the system with this genre in the future? Pointing and clicking would be brought to a whole new level!

Bill: The Nintendo Wii controller interface is definitely unique and fun. I could definitely see where we could do some innovative GUI and interactivity and puzzles. I think the Wii is the next step in gaming and I’m really excited by it. Again, I can’t make any promises, but we do have plans to pursue and research the possibility of making a version of A Vampyre Story on the Wii.

C3: Finally, in the small amount of spare time you actually have (!), what games have been taking your mind off things?

Bill: Ever since I started the company, I haven’t really had a chance to play games. The only games I really get a chance to play are a little bit of Sims 2 and occasionally some World of Warcraft. The reason I play that game is that I love the look of it. A lot of people say it’s a 3D game and it is technically, but I consider it more of a 2D game because most of the art, most of the reason why it’s beautiful, is because of the textures and the 2D art in the game. So I look at that game a lot for research. I like how they did their particle effects, I like their colours and how they painted their textures. I just think it’s a beautiful, beautiful game. I think as soon as Neverwinter Nights 2 comes out I may give that a shot. I really like their tool set and I like creating dungeons. But I haven’t had a chance to play many games recently.

Occasionally, I do play Lego Star Wars with my kids. I really enjoy that. I’ve been playing a lot of games for younger audiences recently because I have three children who are now starting to play games. We basically play Xbox and PC games. They’ve started playing adventure games. I’ve started them on playing Curse of Monkey Island. They play the Freddie Fish adventure games and the Putt Putt adventure games. I’ve gotten them started on adventure games. I even bought the Nancy Drew adventure games for my oldest daughter. We sit around and play games together, so that’s most of my game playing right now. I love first person shooters and I love RPGs and the occasionally comedy adventure game. But right now I’m all about working on A Vampyre Story and getting the company going and achieving that.
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